If you’ve been negatively affected by the HCU, or any algorithm update, or you’re seeing your Google Search traffic decline for whatever reason, you’ve come to the right podcast.

Tony Hill is a digital marketer with decades of experience, but when his sites’ traffic started to tank, he rolled up his sleeves and started looking for an alternative traffic source. And he found Pinterest.

Tony has gone deep into the rabbit hole on Pinterest, studying how it works and poring over its data, to come up with strategies that work. 

Currently, he’s getting a million clicks a month on the platform, and he’s constantly experimenting with new sites and new tactics. 

Don’t miss this podcast where he talks about how he believes Pinterest works, how Pinterest SEO is similar to Google SEO, and how he tailors his content to his Pinterest audience.

Watch the Full Interview

Tony starts by sharing a bit of his backstory, which includes working on niche sites for the last 20 years. More recently, he shifted his strategy to include Pinterest which, as it has started to work for him, he has doubled down on the platform.

After so many years focusing on SEO, Tony makes some important distinctions between Google and Pinterest, talking about quality thresholds, topical authority, and keyword cannibalization, among other topics. 

Tony, who has a portfolio of sites, is currently getting just under 1 million clicks per month and he has essentially turned his back on Google traffic and has gone all-in on Pinterest.

In recent months, Tony dove into the Pinterest rabbit hole and has been reading the company’s patents and whitepapers to understand how it works. He shares some of his discoveries, as well as some of the tools he’s created with that information. 

He also talks a lot about Pinterest SEO and how Pinterest works, comparing it to Google, primarily the importance of keywords and how the platform uses them. He shares some of the strategies he uses to find keywords and how he includes them in his content, and he talks about Pinterest’s home feed and Trends.

Tony then shares some strategies, which will depend on the niche you’re in, and talks about pinning frequency, which will often depend on the type of article the pin was made for. 

He discusses his preferred scheduler, how many times he pins a day, and how the possibilities of new websites gaining traction in Pinterest are great at the moment, compared with previous periods where it could take new accounts months to establish themselves.

Given the focus on virality on other platforms, Tony talks about virality on Pinterest and explains how he goes about creating content that “ranks” on Pinterest.

He also offers some great advice about how to tailor your content, and your pins, to the Pinterest audience, and why it’s so important to study the successful pins in your niche to understand what’s working.

Topics Tony Hill Talks About

• Why he started using Pinterest
• Google/SEO vs. Pinterest
• His current Pinterest stats
• Pinterest SEO
• Pinterest strategies
• Pinning frequency
• Volume and URLs
• Virality
• Creating blog posts for Pinterest
• Tailoring content

Links & Resources

TraNscript

Jared: All right. Welcome back to the niche pursuits podcast. My name is Jared Bauman. Today we have a returning guest, Tony Hill. Tony, welcome back on board. Hey, Jared. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me back, man. It’s good to have you. The background has changed. So something has changed in your office setup. It looks nice though.

Tony: Yeah. Thanks. I’m finally in my new house. Got it built, got in like a few days before Christmas. It was nice, made it work, but, uh, yeah, it’s nice to finally beat now I’m up higher, so I’ve got a view over the neighborhood, the second floor, whereas my old office, I was like halfway underground and the britches were starting to cover up my windows.

Uh, it was kind of becoming a bunker. So it’s nice to

Jared: literally moving up in the world. Congratulations. All right. Puns aside, you joined us about a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago. Sometime over a year ago, we talked all about your content updating process. Yeah. We were talking before we hit record today about.

I was saying how today’s topic really doesn’t have much to do with that. We’re talking Pinterest today and you told me you thought it actually did have something to do with it. Can you, obviously people can go listen to the previous episode. It was one of the most popular episodes of that year. We’ll link to it in the show notes, but kind of catch us up on who you are.

And then maybe if you could transition us into how there is connection from your old podcast episode on updating content and what we’re talking about today, which is, which is basically a Pinterest kind of deep dive.

Tony: Cool. Yeah. So if you don’t know who I am, uh, I’ve been running niche sites for almost 20 years now.

Uh, it makes me feel a little old here, but yeah, I got my start with Google AdSense Back in the day, uh, throwing up some websites and figured out how to rank on Google very easily, very quickly. And so, yeah, started making money from a portfolio of niche sites and I’ve been doing ever since. And I’ve had my ups and downs with Google over the years.

Um, so I’m not, I’m used to it. It’s nothing new. I mean, what’s been happening since last September of 2023. Through, uh, you know, now somewhere till 24 with niche sites has been pretty brutal with Google, um, kind of unprecedented, you know, my, my time and doing all this for 20 years. So, uh, fortunately, I’ve had, had other alternative traffic sources and Pinterest has been, has been a big one for me the last several years.

And I’m really glad I had doubled down on it several years ago because it’s honestly like helping things. I keep things afloat to be honest. So, uh, you know, like me and everyone else who’s running niche sites, like probably had their traffic just completely demolished by Google. Um, so there was a content updating process that worked really well, uh, you know, early last year to the previous year, 2022, um, it’s really started dial it in, in 2021, 2020, and it was a great process, like within, you know, You know, updating a piece of content, like within a couple of weeks, I could start seeing traction come back and like rankings are coming back and getting more traffic revenue.

It was great until it wasn’t until September of 2023 hit. And yeah, started crushing me and so many other people. It’s been, it’s been rough.

Jared: The day all of our content became unhelpful. That’s right.

Tony: Uh, yeah, it’s frustrating because, you know, I spent, and I think I talked about this in the last podcast. Uh, head on a little bit, but man, I spent so much time and money paying experts to write my content and to edit my content.

Um, like I had a, I had a portfolio of medical sites and I was paying doctors to, they were, the content was ghostwritten, but I’d have a doctor, uh, edit it to however they want to. And then had another doctor review it. Like I was doing that before big sites, big medical sites were doing it. And then I’ve transferred that process over to other niche sites.

Cause I’m not really an expert in. The sites that I run, and I wanted to rely on experts. And so it was just even more devastating to see all these sites tank, even though I had experts writing the content. And it’s funny, cause now when I’m using chat, GBT to like generate content, I can easily tell that it like literally was trained on my content because it’s writing in the style that I was paying these experts to write in.

Um, so it’s come, it’s a little tricky then, like, how do you come up with unique. Content than, um, when like chat GPT already has everything, right? And trying to fill that gap. But I’m not really worried about it as much these days because Pinterest, um, has a lower threshold of like what they look at in terms of quality and everything.

You can get away with a lot more compared to Google, which is kind of the beauty of Pinterest in many ways. So, um, you know, when it comes to going back to comes to updating content, what’s been interesting about doing this for Pinterest is, um. You know, there’s content cannibalization with Google and you don’t want to start covering the same topic or a slight variation of a topic.

Um, otherwise, like, you know, you start to see this correlation of your rankings going down and Google’s getting confused on like topical authority, but there’s really no like topical authority keyword cannibalization with Pinterest. And it’s like I had this lightbulb moment several months ago with Pinterest because I’ve been, you know, almost 100 percent and on Pinterest spending a lot more time over there these days.

And so I’m just discovering more things about it and testing more things. And one of the realizations I had through some conversations I’ve had with other people who have been on Pinterest for a long time, and that’s their whole thing. They were like, you know, you can basically like one of the things that they were doing is they were.

Copying one of their blog posts, I think it’s like a Christmas blog post, which does really well on Pinterest. And they would just literally copy it word for word, um, and put it all into a new post and then change the year and then create new pins for it. Uh, and publish the pens, publish the blog posts.

And it’s the same exact topic. Everything’s starting the same keywords. It’s the same text, completely duplicate content, basically. Um, and they don’t care if Google indexes or not, because they’re creating. A new URL, which Pinterest really likes to see. Um, and then they’re creating new pens. And so who cares if you’ve got a second article on the same exact topic?

Uh, so that was just eye opening to me like, Oh man, I can really scale things out, um, and creating, you know, like, yeah, I guess it is, it’s super good content and you know, is that a great user experience where you got kind of have to approach it. A little differently. Like I hide duplicate posts from like the category pages or like the related posts section and everything.

But, um, it’s just a different way to feed the Pinterest algorithm versus the Google algorithm.

Jared: It’s interesting to hear you kind of talk about, I think a lot of people have come on the podcast and talked about pivoting away from their focus, being Google into something else, whether it’s Pinterest or Facebook or YouTube, or the list goes on.

They’ve, they’ve, There’s been a theme, which is how freeing it’s been. It just feels like everyone feels like the shackles to some degree have come off in creating content for other platforms. I know when I write my email newsletter every week, like I don’t think about headers and keywords and, um, and internal linking and all that.

And it’s, it is more freeing to be a creator. That can just write, but not have to worry about some of those things. So that, that’s an upside. I mean, you had doubled down on Pinterest already before you lost a bunch of traffic from Google. Maybe we’d like to do this here on the podcast. Fill us in on where you’re at and anything you’re comfortable sharing in terms of like what types of metrics Pinterest is driving you just to give people a framework.

You know, you talked about how you have some niche sites, where, what are you focusing on in terms of your portfolio and what sort of traffic is Pinterest driving you?

Tony: Yeah,

Jared: driving. And then maybe we can kind of start to, um, kind of undo your process a bit to learn more about it. Sure.

Tony: Yeah. Um, I am currently a little under a million clicks a month.

Um, I was on another podcast and that one, I was over a million clicks a month from Pinterest and I’m down because, um, I’m down with Google traffic. So there’s this phrase, uh, like, and that is penner’s pen. So what happens is what happened in the past is people would come to my site from Google, they would see the images there and they would pin them to Pinterest.

And then those pens would get traction with Pinterest and get visibility. They would send clicks from the Pinterest platform back to my site. So it was like this cyclical process. So once my Google traffic started to go down, that meant less people were coming to my sites. Less people were pinning the images.

And thus getting less traffic from Pinterest. So I did see a decline in my Pinterest traffic not too long after the HCU hit. Um, and so what I’m doing now is I’m diversifying even more, creating more basically Pinterest, Friendly sites and just focusing them completely on Pinterest. Um, and many of them like are in the same exact niche.

I mean, that’s the, you know, beauty of it. Like with Pinterest, you’ve got, you’ve got the search feature on there and you have the search results pages. It’s similar to Google, right? You’ve got number one, number two, number three rankings and so on. So I’m trying to capture all, you know, 10 rankings if I can for like some of the biggest keywords in a niche, um, but 10 different sites.

And, uh, then there’s like the fee, the home feed, which is the equivalent of like Google discover. Um, and so, you know, I’m able to, to also show up there in the home feed and targeting that as well. So those are my current numbers, but that’s my current goal right now. It’s like one, by the end of this year, I want to have like all 10 sites just humming along, um, gaining more and more traffic every month.

And I’ve been working on that, uh, this year, like January, February, I’ve been starting up some niche sites specifically for Pinterest. Um, had a big fumble recently with one of them. Uh, the server went down for like 12 hours one day. It was starting to get some really great traction with Pinterest, like sending, I don’t know, 5, 000 Visits a day and server went down for 12 hours while I was sleeping.

Um, my VA sent me an email, but you know, I was sleeping. So I didn’t see it till the morning. And so I look, you know, like I fixed that issue and just kind of restarted the server, it fixed the issue. So I was back up. Everything’s great. Couldn’t figure out what caused the issue, but I looked at the analytics graph for that day.

And you could see just a pinch of traffic completely tank, obviously while the site is down. So I monitored that for about a week and I noticed that. That Pinterest traffic never really recovered after the server went down. Um, it was down like 20{d0d8c9a3780aae347a3c0ec9b539f6350131b27bfcedb699d8911923448b0bae}, 25{d0d8c9a3780aae347a3c0ec9b539f6350131b27bfcedb699d8911923448b0bae}. And then like a couple of weeks later, the same thing happened.

Server went down, site went down and Pinterest traffic never recovered. So it went down to like another 25 percent or so. And it’s like never recovered from that.

Jared: Oh boy.

Tony: So I think there’s something about starting a new site and like a new domain. Cause I think there is domain authority Pinterest. Um, and.

So if you’re starting a new site for Pinterest, just make sure that, uh, I would, I, what I would do, what I’m going to be doing differently is putting everything on CloudFlare so that if the server does go down, at least CloudFlare is going to keep it up, um, with its cache version of the site. So that’s the lesson learned from, from that one.

Um, I let your insight go down. .

Jared: I think it’s, I was, one of my questions on my agenda was, is it, does it make sense to have, um, you know, a multiple Pinterest, uh, profile approach? And so you’ve kind of answered that. I’m gonna have another question for you on that. I’m gonna come back to it though. Um, Pinterest versus SEO, and this is something you and I have talked about off air.

A lot of people listening just like you will have had or still have. An SEO focused mindset in terms of their content creation process and how to many, certainly to me, Pinterest feels and sounds like a visual platform. So instead of kind of glossing over and going over the high level of Pinterest, we’re going to assume that people can go get that information somewhere else.

And let’s dive deep into the concepts of why you’ve seen so much continuity between approaching Pinterest the same way in terms of an SEO background that you did with SEO.

Tony: Yeah. You know, I think one of the reasons why I did well with Google SEO is because I love to learn and research and reverse engineer and try to figure out how this algorithm is working, running tests.

And so once that stopped working with Google, if you’re a niche site, then I just basically transfer that over to Pinterest. Yeah. It’s a visual platform, but at the end of the day, they have to convert everything to. Well, really ones and zeros, but before that they have to convert things to text. Right. And then they organize it.

So, I mean, they’re, they’re leveraging, um, the same type of or similar algorithms that Google does. And they’ve got to convert things to numbers. And it’s math at the end of the day with all these platforms. It’s math. And so. I took a very similar approach with trying to figure out Pinterest SEO. Um, there’s, I didn’t really do a whole lot of research to, to learn from others about it, and I, I don’t know.

I just like to roll up my sleeves and figure things out on my own a lot. Um, but I have since like kind of looked around and there’s not a lot of people. You’re talking about Pinterest SEO. I mean, they talk about how to do well with creating pins and everything, but there is a kind of underlying SEO approach to take to Pinterest that not a lot of people talk about and do.

And really that comes down to keywords. Um, at the end of the day is, yes, it’s a visual platform, but Pinterest needs the keywords. So for example, one of the things that they do with every single. Pen for the most part, there are some cases where they don’t do this, but they will analyze the image and they will figure out what’s in the image and convert that to text know that they do that because if you create a Pinterest pen right now and you don’t set an alt text for it, when you go to pin it, um, then Pinterest will create an alt text for you.

And if, even if you don’t put, put in a pin title or description, it will create the alt text based upon what it analyzes. From the image, and so it needs that text so that they can help with relevancy when people are searching or, um, when it comes to the home feed and they basically will take all this text and, um, these concepts and they handle it very similarly to Google.

And that’s it with Google like entities has kind of been a big thing for the last several years with Google SEO, right? So Pinterest has something very similar. They call them interests, or they’re also known as annotations. And so Pinterest has this database of like 11 million plus what they call interests, which are things that people are interested in.

And they’re, they are things that Pinterest has You know, officially catalogs into their database. Now they have then humans who will go in and curate this database of interests. Um, I know all this cause, uh, Pinterest has a lot of, um, patents and white papers that they published online. And I’ve been reading them for a while now, and it’s amazing the things that they reveal about how they’re handling their algorithms and using AI and machine learning.

Uh, and so what they’re doing is they have this, like, human curated database of all these interests, or. Entities or keywords that people are searching for that they’re interested in, and they’re like all these concepts, um, that Pinterest is becoming aware of, and then they will officially have someone go through and they will, um, create a taxonomy for it.

Meaning like they’ll figure out the hierarchy of what it is. So for example, if, um, there’s a concept of a pink bedroom. Then hierarchy would be, um, you know, might be like, uh, home decor, right? And then the above home decor would be home or something. So, uh, it’s able to, you know, they’re able to catalog catalog all this, and it’s going to help them build all these connections, just like the entity graph that Google has, um, where behind the scenes, Google knows how all these different concepts connect to each other.

Same, same thing with Pinterest. Um, What’s interesting about Pinterest is that they show you a lot of this because they’ll show you the hierarchy or that taxonomy. Um, and that’s that’s and they’ll show you some related interests. So, I mean, It’s amazing what they’ll show you compared to what Google shows you.

Google has Google trends, um, where you, where you can search for entities, but you have to start with an entity and you can see related ones down at the bottom if you scroll down, but, um, it’s limited to like, you’ve got to know what you’re looking for. Um, and then it’s just gonna, it’s gonna kind of be a guessing game.

So, uh, but a couple of months ago, I was trying to figure out like, how do I find. All of these interests that Pinterest has, I don’t know how many they have now. I knew one of the ways I was finding them and when, why they’re, the reason why they’re important is because they will build out Pinterest will build out automated pages on their site based upon all of these interests.

I’ve seen these pages rank really well. They do. that even more so over the last like six plus months. And so these pages sent Pinterest a lot of traffic and they’re great, you know, starting points for people, um, to find pens around those interests and related interests and everything. And so those pages are getting traffic and I want my pens to show up on those pages.

Right. And so I’m trying to figure out, okay, what are all these interests that are related to my niche? And so I would go to Google and I would do a site search. I’d be like site colon Pinterest. com slash ideas. Then slash, and then I would type in a keyword cause they put all these interest pages behind their ideas folder.

And so then I was, I was finding all these interest pages and I was just making sure like anything related to my niche, I’m pinning stuff that, uh, are officially using those interests with whatever that keyword is, um, in the pin title description and that kind of stuff. Um, but I found a couple of months ago, I kind of stumbled upon this list of all of their.

Interest. I think it’s all of them. Who knows for sure. But, um, I found this list. It took forever to like normally find it. And like, then I had to download it. Cause it’s like 11 million records. So there’s a whole process, but I figured out, found it and. Um, was able to put that into a database, made it searchable.

Uh, so now, cause Google is not indexing all 11 million of these, and this includes different languages. So, um, so that was kind of limiting to just searching Google, try to find all these interest pages. So now I’ve got this full database, made it searchable, ended up putting that into a tool that I created called pin clicks.

And, um, so that’s been a game changer figuring out, okay, what are all these official interests that I want to target? Because these are going to show up in search results because these interests are very common searches, but they also show up in the home feed, which we can talk about that later. Um, and so, yeah, that’s a kind of a goldmine of being able to find those.

And then, like, I happened to stumble upon what I believe is a top 20, 000 interests that on the platform. So these, these are the things that majority of the people. On the platform are really interested in and searching for and so, um, I downloaded that list and then I made that like a free searchable tool.

So we can link people to that if they want to use that. It’s a great tool to like, figure out, uh, could your site do well on Pinterest. So you any of the topics you’re covering. Are they in the top 20, 000? So just kind of plug in some of those keywords in there and see what shows up. So that’s been very valuable to find these interests.

Um, and like, that’s just something that we can’t find with Google, you know, they’re not going to basically give us their entire database of entities, uh, valuable as that would be. But Pinterest in a way, like now we have access to that. So that’s one way it’s, it’s different thing, uh, some similarities, uh, but it’s a way that’s different.

Um, and you know, it’s still like traditional SEO in the sense that you’ve got a pin title and we’ve got a pin description, right? So it’s kind of the equivalent of like your H1 or your, or your title tag versus your, you know, your body text. Like it’s important to get the right keywords in there. Um, and those keywords are the annotations.

So I mentioned annotations a little bit ago. Annotations are basically interests. They’re kind of the same thing, but Pinterest calls them annotations when they are official keywords. That are associated with a pen. So here’s something really kind of weird. I don’t know why Pinterest does this, but if you were to go onto Pinterest, find a random pen, like logged in, and look at you know, the description area of that pen, and then take that URL, open up a browser like an incognito mode, or logged out of Pinterest, Pasting that pen URL and look at it.

And what you’ll see is I believe it’s a load. The description is going to be a bunch of bubbles of keywords and those keywords are annotations. And really those annotations are just official interests. And you can click on them and it’ll take you to the interest page that I was talking about. Um, the idea page.

So what ha what’s happening behind the scenes is that Pinterest is. Analyzing every pin that gets added to their platform. And they’re looking at the pen title. They’re looking at the description, all texts, looking at analyzing the image itself and extracting, you know, all the different objects that they detect in it.

And they’re even looking at the site that it’s linking to. The pen is linking to, so they’ll look at the title and the meta description and the body text and everything. And it’s going to try to find matching interests with an interest database. And then they will label and add all these. Annotations is what they call them to the, to the pen.

And so that’s what you’re seeing when you’re logged out of Pinterest. And so if you want to have your pen show up like in the home feed, um, for sure. And then even it will help for the search feature using these annotations. Uh, it’s, it’s. Really important. Um, so it’s, it’s pretty amazing that like Pinterest is kind of like handing you the keywords to use, but you have to be logged out to see them.

Like I said, and like, they don’t show you, show you them all at once. You kind of have to like, you can only see like one or two at a time and then you kind of have to vertically or horizontally scroll and copy them. It’s kind of a pain. Um, and so that’s one of the reasons why, you know, with pin clicks, I built a feature that will just extract all those for you.

And you can just with one button copy all those annotations if you want to use them for a pen where you know you want to target particular keyword. So like my approach is very similar to Google like I’m going to go, um, search Pinterest logged out. It’s always important when I’m doing my research and everything I’m logged out so that, None of the results are fine tuned to me and what, like my interests that are associated with my account and user behavior.

And I’m looking to see like, what’s ranking, you know, one, two, three, four keyword. What are the annotations that are being used? Cause I want to make sure whichever ones are being used the most, especially in those top three rankings, I want to make sure I’m using those annotations somewhere in my pen. And that’s going to be like in the description, could be in the title, could be in the pin alt text.

Um, and then I want to include those in my body text as well on the blog post. So as you can see, like there’s some similarities with approaching Pinterest SEO with Google SEO. It’s identifying those keywords and making sure you’re including them in your content to help them surface higher. Within the search results.

And then it also helps with showing up in the home feed. So like with the annotations, um, what Pinterest is doing with their home feed is for every user, they’re trying to find a match of like a new pen they haven’t seen before that has a matching interests. Um, so every person on Pinterest. Pinterest is assigning all of these interests or the, that I’ve been talking about and that they’re assigning them based upon like, well, what is the user engaging with?

Um, what did the user select when they first created their Pinterest account? Pinterest will present to you a list of interests that you can follow. Um, and so what, you know, looking at that and they’re looking at like, what are you searching for? And so they’re, they’re watching and observing everything that you’re doing on the platform and they’re trying to find interests that they can associate with you as a user.

And then. On the pen level, like when you go and as a publisher and you create a pen, you upload it, it’s creating those annotations, which are interests, and it’s a labeling your pen with all those interests. And now it’s trying to find a match between, you know, that user and the interest associated with them and pens that have those same.

Interest associated with them. And so that’s, what’s going to help you show up in the home feed. And of course there’s like engagement metrics you got to work on. And Google has, you know, engagement metrics that they use for their rankings and everything. So there’s some similarity there as well.

Jared: On a practical level, what does all this information mean for someone?

And what I mean is let’s say you discover. A, uh, degree of, of keywords and annotations that are, that, that, that are viable for Pinterest for your niche. Are you building out topical maps? Are you trying to make sure you cover every nuanced one of these? Um, I think we can all grasp the idea that I find a keyword annotation.

I got to use it in my title. I got to use it in my description. We can all get our minds around that, but at scale, maybe get really practical with how this plays out for someone and how layered you’re taking this research. In how you approach your overall content plan on Pinterest.

Tony: Yeah, for sure. So it all starts with keyword research, like with SEO, right?

Um, so I’m looking at, typically I’ll go to Pinterest trends first, always a great starting point. It’s an amazing tool. It would be crazy if Google offered a similar tool. I don’t think they ever will, but it’s, it’s very revealing because Pinterest is just basically handing you a list of. Thousands and thousands and thousands of searches that people are performing on the platform.

And these are going to be some of the most popular ones. And so it’s cool because you can, um, there are boxes on the, on the left hand side of the Pinterest trends tool where you can select like your category. Uh, that your site may fall under and then it’s going to show you the top keywords from there.

And so it’s a great starting point to find some keywords that you, that you want to target. Um, and maybe there’s some that you already have, right? So I’m sure we have people listening and watching here that they’ve have an existing blog. Uh, and so they’re trying to figure out, okay, can my existing content work for Pinterest?

And that’s where they can use that free interest tool that I talked about earlier, but they can also plug in some of their most popular Google keywords. Um, into Pinterest trends to see what, what comes up. And, um, that’s a great starting point of like working with your existing content. I mean, those are the easiest wins versus like having to create all new content.

Once you find, find one and, or, you know, say there’s like dozens and dozens of overlapping content that you can target with Pinterest that you’re also targeting with Google. Um, then you can start branching out from there. And, uh, what’s cool is Pinterest also has a very similar feature to Google, and that is, um, the search suggestions.

So as you start searching on Pinterest in the search bar, right, it has a drop down of these search suggestions. It’s another great resource to find additional keywords. Now, sometimes those keywords are best used as like H2s in a blog post. Where like, you know, you target the main keyword, you search that in Pinterest and you’ll see a drop down and what you see in the drop down will be good secondary keywords to target.

But sometimes those are good standalone topics to cover. The downside is that, uh, you know, you’ve got to manually search that. Um, there are tools for Google that will basically like scrape all of those populated search suggestions. Um, But not really a whole lot out there for Pinterest, which so I kind of built my own like with pin clicks.

I kind of included that where we’re going to run that query like if you punch in, um, dark chocolate and a Pinterest search, then like, we’re going to like, put in dark chocolate and letter a and dark chocolate letter B and like, see what comes up for each of those letters and we’ll even run numbers through it and grab all those keywords like hundreds and hundreds of keywords.

So, um, yeah. That kind of saves a ton of time, but it’s a great way to start building out a topical map of all the topics you can cover for Pinterest. But I would start, yeah, with your current content. Sometimes you get lucky and like the current content you’ve created for Google or maybe for Facebook, works really well for Pinterest.

Sometimes not, and you have to completely change your approach.

Jared: When it comes to scaling this out. So let’s now move into how we actually do this, right? We’ve got to actually, now we know what to create. Hopefully to your point, I’ve already got a bunch of awesome images and URLs to send traffic to, from Pinterest.

That’s the end goal, I think for a lot of people, but where do I go in terms of publishing this at that scale? And I’m not saying at scale, meaning you’re doing a hundred, 200, 300 pins a day. I’m really, and maybe you are, by the way, we’ll get into that. I hope, but, but really more like what’s the process past keyword research, past idea research, past content research, and into practicality.

What are best practices in terms of what’s working now? What sort of volume do I need to do? Because again, going back to your references to the similarities that it has with Google, how frequently we post, how, how, how detailed we cover the topic. These are all important aspects to ranking inside of a Google environment.

How do we get that process dialed in for a Pinterest environment?

Tony: Right. So once you start, you have your keyword research done, and that’s really going to kind of dictate where you go from there, depending on your niche and the topics you’re covering. So you can cover topics that are primarily like information based that People are going to read, um, then you cover topics that are more maybe visual where people want to get inspiration, right?

So like for the visual inspiration, maybe it’s like going back to home decor. They just want to get some inspiring ideas of ways they can redecorate their kid’s bedroom, uh, versus maybe an informational post where maybe it’s like a parenting blog post, like giving you some parenting advice for your toddler.

So that’s going to become information that they’re going to read. And so then there’s like the Goldilocks. Of those two. And that’s where you’re creating content that is both visual. People want to look at the pictures, but there’s also written content to go along with it. Um, honestly, like recipes is a great niche for that.

Yeah. Yeah. There’s some, why there’s a reason why a lot of recipe bloggers do really well on Pinterest. Uh, you just hit that perfect. Mark of the visual inspiration and ideas and capturing attention, but people also are going to read. So they’re going to spend a lot of time on your site, which is great for ad revenue.

Yeah. Not to call it, you know, getting the recipe niche. Uh, I’m personally not in it, but, um, it’s not, it’s, it’s a great one to, to be in for Pinterest. So, uh, so that, so from there you have to figure out how to approach your pens. Like once you understand this type of content you have either, you know, it’s more.

More visual again, like the more inspirational visual of like, you know, home decor, or like, uh, maybe you got a list of like, you know, um, you know, tattoo ideas or something like just some, some sort of inspiration people are just going to visually look at all the pretty pictures. Um, or you’ve got the text more information based, or you’ve got to cut the Goldilocks of the two combined.

It’s going to change how you approach your pens. So if your content is primarily text information base, then your pens are more likely going to have to be text based, meaning yes, you’ll have to have a visual picture of the pen, but you’re probably gonna have to put some text on it to get to capture people’s attention.

There’s just a strong correlation of being able to see the text on the pen image itself and because they’re going to read it. And it’s going to take them to an article where they’re going to continue to read. Um, and then if you’re in a more of a pure, like, image niche, where people just want inspirational pictures, then you can get away with just pinning pure images.

Which is way easier. All you have to do is just grab the image and pin it. And you’re done. I mean, you know, then put in the pin title, description, etc. And then there’s, you know, the one that kind of combines the two, where, uh, like with the recipes or something, you’re still, a lot of times they’re going to want to.

Have like a picture of, you know, the final recipe and what it looks like, but also with some texts on that. And sometimes not, sometimes the pure images might capture people’s attention. Um, and then you can kind of play around with that, like a mix of it. Sometimes they’re like collage pens where you can, uh, put a bunch of different pictures together on one pen that capture people’s attention.

That’s great for like listicle content is good where you’ve got a bunch of pictures. Say it’s like, you know, top 25 things to do in San Diego. Um, you can have like a collage pen of like several different, um, noticeable.

Jared: Sorry, I have to break the third wall here. Um, it says you’ve stopped recording. Uh, it says you ran out of storage. I’ve never seen this before.

What should I do?

It says that you’re out of hard disk space, which again, I don’t, this doesn’t, to my knowledge, use up your hard drive, but that’s what it’s telling me.

Yeah, it’s done. It stopped at like the 34 minute mark. Uh, it says to restart the browser that could just fix it. Maybe it’s just a glitch and it has a plenty of space and somehow it felt like it hit a limit.

That’s bizarre. Now it’s saying that your browser is not allowing Riverside to save as a disc. It just flagged that for me.

Yeah. Let’s try that first. Yeah.

It doesn’t, it’s too complex for it.

Okay, great. Yeah. Let’s see if that works.

You’re recording again.

Tony: Okay.

Jared: Okay. Well, I mean, we can just kind of pick up where we left off. Unfortunately, I don’t know exactly where you were in the process when it stopped recording.

Tony: Okay.

Jared: Uh, so I was talking about the different types of images, the different types that you got through the text overlay, the no text, and then I, I’m, I’m pretty sure you got through the four, like the multiple images, so maybe just pick Bring it to a close there.

Give us a nice close to it. Unless you had some profound thing you wanted to get into, you know, and we can just kind of edit that part together.

Tony: Okay. It’s so we’ll just pretend nothing happened

Jared: basically. Yeah.

Tony: Okay.

Jared: I mean, I don’t know what you want to say, but you’ll say something like, okay. So just in summary, we got the, this, the, this, and the, this, and.

Okay. Again, my big question was content publishing, like how do we move from keyword research and into actually publishing? So you can kind of tie it all back to that.

Tony: Okay. Got it. Uh, all right. So what that means is now you’ve got an idea of kind of pens to create. It’s going to not only, you know, your content is going to, and your topic is going to dictate kind of pins to create, but also how many and how frequently, frequently you’re going to pin them.

Okay. So the, I have the framework that I like to reference when people ask me, okay, when I’m creating a blog post, how many pens should I create for it? How frequently should I pin them? Should I pin them all at once? Should I spread them out? And the framework I have is basically the more likely one person will.

Like come across your blog post or maybe a Pinterest board that you’ve created, um, that contains all your pins for blog posts, the more likely that that person will pin more than one of your pins. For that one topic or that one blog post, the more likely you can go ahead and pin all those more frequently or closer together.

Typically, that is going to be the case with more like visual, pure like image pins, um, like more ideas of, you know, sometimes it can work like even with recipes. So say you have a recipe roundup of like, you know, the top 25, um, you know, best, you know, pool party snacks, um, someone might save. You know, five or more ideas, you know, and they might want more than just one snack.

So they would go in and that one session and pen multiple ideas. So that means you could pin those more frequently and closer together, like, or even all at once. But, uh, say you’ve got going back to that, you know, toddler one with advice for the tantrums. And when you create a pin for that, it’s usually gonna have like a text overlay with like.

You know, how do you tips on like helping with your toddler’s tantrums? Well, in that case, they’re going to see those pens more of as like a bookmark for blog posts, and they’re just going to save that one pen. And in that case, you don’t want to flood Pinterest with a bunch of pens that pretty much are all the same thing.

Maybe a slight variation with your pen titles and the text on it, but it’s all pretty much promoting the same exact thing. Then I would spread those out over time. Like pen one. Per week or one per month because, um, it doesn’t look good. It’s not great for engagement metrics when people see a bunch of those pens, but they’re only going to save one out of 10 or something that you just posted.

So, um, once you have that kind of figured out like your cadence of rhythm of, of how you’re going to pin all these over time, um, which I like to use the Pinterest native scheduler, I’ve just had found the most success with that. I mean, some people find success using third party schedulers like tailwind.

Or pen generator. And, um, they’ll just get those all scheduled out then. Um, but I like to use the Pinterest scheduler. So you’ve, so now like you’ve got your, your pens and sometimes you need to, you know, create the blog post content first. And that’s what I do. You know, like once I get the keyword research done, um, It’s, you know, then give, I, now I’ve got a starting point for the blog posts, the title and what I’m going to cover, create all that content.

And then that’s when we start creating all of the Pinterest pens. And, um, I’ve got, you know, whole process to figure out, like, do we just do the pure images or do we need to put some text overlays? We need to create collages. It kind of depends on the topic in some cases, maybe certain categories that you cover, uh, may require different styles of pens.

And again, that just kind of comes. Through researching your niche and really understanding what performs the best.

Jared: Is Pinterest a volume game? Is there a correlation between how often I pin? And then I think the second half of that conversation is when I pin. I’m pinning a unique image, whether it’s a unique image, a unique image with text overlay, a collage of images. I’m pinning something like that, but is there any correlation to how many different URLs I should be pinning about?

And so I guess the first part, how, how much of a volume game is this? And the second part, how much does that relationship, uh, have to do with the number of URLs you’re actually referencing?

Tony: Right, right. Uh, you know, I know people who are pinning a couple of times a day on a good day. And they’re happy with the traffic that they’re getting, it’s making enough money for them every month.

They’re happy. Um, and that, so that can work now, in my opinion, the fewer the pins that you’re creating and publishing every day, um, the more you’re going to have to make up for that with really good dialed in research and understanding the keywords you need to target, the annotations you need to be targeting.

including the pen designs, like what’s going to perform the best. And that’s just going to take researching time experience to figure that out. But you can, and you can really dial that in. So you don’t need as many pens per se, uh, versus in other people, um, they’re scaling things out to like 50 pins a day.

I do about 48 pins a day. Cause that’s kind of the limitation with the native scheduler. It’s just a good, Decent amount for me. That’s worked well for me, but I know people who are doing like 100 up to 200 a day. That’s the max you can do with the Pinterest account is 200 pins a day. And some people, they were doing like 50 a day.

They were doing well. They tried scaling up to 100. And then things tanked for them. And so they brought it back down to 50 and traffic went back up. And I’ve seen this happen like differently on different accounts. And it’s just Pinterest can be weird about that and treat accounts differently. So you kind of have to find your rhythm.

But my opinion, if you can get at least five out per day, ideally 10. The more the better. Really, it can come down to a numbers game, especially if, um, if you’re in a really big niche, that’s really popular in Pinterest, then maybe you can get away with, with less, but if you’re in a smaller niche, you might have to make up for that by creating.

More pens and just consistently pinning. And the cool part is, you know, you can continue to pin, create new pens for existing content, like all year long, you know, you can continue to do that, continue to promote the same URLs, but also Pinterest, um, really likes new URLs, I’m seeing a big shift over the last, uh, several months with Pinterest and what it’s deciding to rank for keywords.

And one of those things that I’m seeing more of is like new URLs, new pens, New accounts where traditionally with Pinterest search results, they were ranking, you know, older, more established pens that have like high engagement. Um, and it would just kind of take a while to knock someone down from the number one ranking.

But right now, uh, man, they’ve really opened it up, it seems. And so you can, you can come in and I’ve seen pens rank within a couple of weeks. Uh, whereas in the past, it would take months to do that. I mean, I’m able to see new sites I’m starting. Other people are people are starting that are getting traction within like a month or two and getting hundreds, if not thousands of clicks a day from Pinterest.

And for right now, you know, Pinterest is kind of favoring new, you know, New URLs, new sites. Um, just don’t let that your new site go down for more than a few hours. So that’s what was the number to avoid. I said, so, um, so that’s an advantage too. And so that’s where my approach is with like established sites, continue to update content with fresh images, fresh pens.

But also let’s, you know, still focusing on every day, creating new content, create new blog posts, new URLs, and, um, now getting into, okay, well, let’s just continue to target the same kind of content, same keywords, but we’ll create a new URL for it. And create pins for those. Um, that’s just what’s Pinterest seems to be favoring the most right now.

Jared: You’d referenced user metrics, user engagement. I would imagine that’s important on Pinterest. You said it was, so I’m not exactly taking a big leap of faith there. Um, uh, we’ve seen it play out pretty much everywhere, right? And I, I’m trying to understand the degree of importance. Um, uh, for example, we’ve had some topics recently in the podcast about Pinterest, about the Pinterest bonus, uh, sorry, Facebook.

Get my social media platforms mixed up about Facebook, the Facebook bonus platform, Facebook organic. And it’s so tweaked towards, we’ll just say virality, right? Like the need for something to go viral and then the extreme interest that comes from that. And so you’ll go with posts. Not doing much for a while or many of your posts not doing well so that you have the chance of getting one to go extremely viral.

You flip that over to the Google side of things and Google would be much more concerned with building a website out where you have that topical authority. The relevance is there. You’re not just submitting thousands of URLs on your website, hoping one does well, it’s much more about creating, um, you know, a really even breadth of content.

Each individual topic will be appealing to users. Where do we fall with Pinterest on this? How important is chasing virality versus playing a game of making every pin, um, uh, try to get a certain number of clicks and then building kind of almost like a topical authority off of that?

Tony: Yeah, I find it to be a numbers game as well, kind of similar to Facebook, uh, being able to just get as many pens out there that I can, uh, that that’s reasonable.

Um, and hoping that, you know, some will take off and, and some won’t, and sometimes it depends on the season or, you know, it could be like a holiday or some sort of a big event that you can target. And so there’s just natural virality with that. And, um, that’s where I just like to cast a wide net, go for the, the broad, big keywords, but also cover the long tail, cover, you know, the big events, seasonality to things, and really keeping my eye on Pinterest trends.

That is something. Uh, if you’re, if you are really going after Pinterest traffic and want it to be a significant source than keeping an eye on Pinterest trends and what’s going on there at least once a week, a couple of times a month, um, for sure. Yeah. It’s going to give you an idea just to keep up with what’s going on.

Even if you’re not seeing keywords that are directly like in your niche, it gives you an idea of what, what’s going on. People are looking for and you can find a unique angle with it, right? Um, maybe you’re in an itch where maybe there’s nothing really Christmas specific. I mean, you can just ask chat to PT for some ideas, give it, you know, your site map or, you know, list of topics that you cover on the site and ask it for unique ideas for Christmas, you know?

Um, and so that’s where, you know, you’re, you’re probably going to show up more on the Pinterest home feed. For that versus like the search results page. And that’s okay. You can still get a ton of traffic from the Pinterest home feed. You just got to make sure you’re targeting the right interests, getting the right annotations to show up.

And you know, Christmas is a big one. I mean, I’m sure that’s associated with big amount of their users. Um, and so if you’re talking about Christmas and then there might be one other overlapping one where, um, you know, parenting, right, maybe they have that associated with you and the interest of toddlers, um, then there’s might have a blog posts about, um, You know, how to, like, if you’re going to a Christmas party and you’ve got, you know, toddlers there, like, how do you keep them entertained, you know, and so everyone has a good time, the parents and the kids, you know, uh, so if we’re just finding a unique angle, uh, with different, um, events and seasons can help and that’s where you’re paying attention to what’s going on, Pinterest Trends.

Let

Jared: me ask one website question. I know it’s a Pinterest, Pinterest conversation, but it has to do with Pinterest. Um, what’s the structure, what’s the, the, the makeup of the blog post that you’re referencing? Um, again, we talked all about how cumbersome creating content for Google is and all the different, um, structure and research that goes into it.

The, the nuance of content creation, which again, I’ll reference back to your previous podcast episode. That’s really what, what we’re talking about. That the crux of that was is how nuanced you have to go and how detailed you have to go and create a piece of content when you’re trying to rank on Google.

We’re now talking about getting the content into Pinterest and then using that platform to drive traffic back to our website. What is the blog post? What does the website end up looking like? What is a typical blog post that you’re going to pin about?

Tony: You know, there’s. A lot of overlap to what you’re creating for Google and what you’re creating for Pinterest in terms of how you’re structuring your blog posts, the content that goes into it, but like kind of what you’re saying, you don’t have to spend as much time optimizing for it other than sneaking in some of those annotations, uh, would be good.

And then, you know, whatever main keyword you’re targeting. You want to make sure that’s in your blog post, your pin title, the basics of it. But beyond that, it really just comes down to, do you have engaging content? Um, are you just leveraging, you know, you’re, if you’re writing everything yourself, you know, are you just writing in an engaging way, or if you’re leveraging AI to write for you, just having it right in a very engaging way.

Keep people in. And, you know, I like to have lots of images. My content. That’s another way to keep people engaged and more opportunities for people to pen. Right. And so if you can start finding topics that are a little more image heavy in your niche is going to help you. Um, get more traffic from Pinterest.

And so being able to, you know, just weave those images and your blog posts, uh, I’m known for having mine in like a carousel format because I, for me and my tests. They have performed better as far as user engagement. So some people will complain to me when they get into pinterest for the first time and they’re basically going all out with ai Ai images ai content, you know scaling up to 50 100 pens a day and they come to me and they’re like man My time on site is terrible from pinterest traffic.

Like why is that? You know, um, And I think it comes down to just, they, they have either people are there for the pictures and they realize, okay, this is this, these are all the same exact pictures I’m seeing on Pinterest. It’s not like a curated list, you know, that is something unique. Um, or maybe they should try out, I always recommend they try out the carousel format as old school as it is.

There, there’s a lot of people who. Just like to swipe through the pictures versus, you know, the typical vertical scroll. So I always recommend just testing that out. Um, Thea post slider is a great WordPress plugin to check out and test things with. Um, but yeah, it’s a very similar process as creating content for Google.

Honestly, like I didn’t have to change a whole lot of my process other than I just told everybody, Hey, Transfer all of the keyword research to the time we’re doing that, that whole SOP, we just transfer over to Pinterest. Um, but now I don’t have really anyone on my team making sure we’re hitting all these keywords, making sure that, um, we’ve got the right sentence structure.

I think when I was last on the podcast, I was talking about, you know, You know, using interviews and putting them closer to this beginning of the sentence, right? Remember all that.

Jared: Positive sentiment, negative sentiment. I was reviewing my notes from our last talk. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

Tony: All that NLP stuff. Yep.

Didn’t care about any of that. Um, so that person who was responsible for all that, I, I kind of had a lot of go. Honestly, just didn’t have any like internal links. I mean, I’m not really thinking about internal links anymore. We don’t really do it. We’ve got like related posts at the bottom, but, uh, engagement is still in time on site is still great from that.

So content process is very similar. It’s just, we just spend less time on. Actually optimizing the blog post content.

Jared: Let’s start to bring it to a close by addressing the elephant in the room. And that elephant in the room is the people who are listening, who are saying, okay, um, while I’ve been listening to you, Tony, I’ve been on Pinterest trends.

I think there’s a case for me to make that my niche, my interest, my website, whatever you want to call it. It could do well on Pinterest if someone starts to follow this type of approach. And in general, just if someone starts to engage with their content on Pinterest, what type of timeline are we talking about?

And again, going back to Google and back to, Hey, how long does it take for me to get stuff ranking? How long does it take for me to get? Significant traffic, like what does it look like on the Pinterest side of things? Um, yeah, obviously it’s going to vary, but like, let’s walk into that conversations.

People can start to get their mind around what this process looks like as it scales out.

Tony: Yeah, for sure. Okay. So to give you some context, I mean, I feel like I know Pinterest pretty well. I know my niches. Very well. And I’m starting new sites in the same niches that I’m already in. And it’s taking those sites one to two months to start getting significant traffic.

For me, it’s significant, like thousands per day. And I know what I’m doing. And it took a couple months. So if you’re like brand new to all this, you know, there’s just going to be a natural learning curve to it. And it’s going to take time. So I would say if you can’t invest. Six months into this, I would wait and set it aside until you can realistically.

Yeah, I would say six months. And then you start seeing some traction at that point. And even, and even sooner, if you know, you can figure out, you know, dial things in, or maybe there’s just a natural overlap with the content you’re already covering and what people are searching for on Pinterest. Now, if that’s not your case, like I’ve had people come to me and they’re like, I’m in the dirt bike niche.

Like I talk about dirt bikes. Um, how to, you know, fix issues with dirt bikes, how, you know, I’ve reviewed dirt bikes and all the gear. Can I work? Can my site work for Pinterest? Um, and I, I think there’s a case that it can now. I think we all know, uh, print Pinterest is primarily female oriented and so, which means you got, you got to target your content and slant it towards that female audience.

Now, there’s probably some women on Pinterest who are really into dirt bikes, um, or motocross, but probably not a whole lot. However, those women probably have men in their life. That are, and so that’s where you can tailor your content to target the women who have the most. The people in their life who are into that particular topic.

So for example, like maybe you put together, uh, maybe father’s day is coming up, right? And like your, your husband is really into dirt bikes and, um, maybe you want to give him something for father’s day. You and the kids get together, get something for father’s day. Maybe it’s like some new helmet or something, right?

And so that’s where you can do a roundup post of, um, you know, top 25 father’s day gifts for men who. Love, you know, for the man who loves riding dirt bikes in your life. Uh, and so just take tailoring your content towards the women who have person in their life who’s into that niche. And so it’s kind of one hop removed.

You know, you’re normally writing content for that person who’s in, like you see your niche who, you know, passionate about it, or maybe they’re researching it on Google, but now you’re writing content for the person who’s kind of one person removed. They’re maybe researching that or interested in it because there’s a person in life and their life who is interested in it.

And that can totally work too. Now don’t expect like millions of clicks a month from Pinterest for that, but it can be a good way to help make up for, um, some of your Google traffic loss. And the beauty of Pinterest, uh, is that, you know, it’s a free platform. Uh, it’s a, it doesn’t cost anything like to get going versus like Facebook, you really these days that you’ve, you’ve got to start spending money on ads to like do the light campaigns.

Right. And you build up your, build up your, your following. Well, that’s not really the case with Pinterest. It used to be where like, you really want to build up your following. I have people ask me like, okay, how many followers can I get? Can I buy followers? And the reality is you don’t need any followers to do well on Pinterest.

Um, that’s just not the way things work with their algorithm anymore. And so you don’t have to pay to play, which is great.

Jared: That’s a reasonable timeline. You know, I think, you know, people understanding, uh, the backstory of content creation in general, kind of, you know, Be able to lean into that. And, uh, I mean, any, any final things that we didn’t cover, you think are really, really important.

I’m glad you mentioned the followers thing. Um, I had that buried on my list that we didn’t get to, but just any key things about Pinterest, especially as it relates to today and going forward, that content creators listening would really want to hear as we close on.

Tony: Yeah. Um, you know, like I mentioned, doing the research and just spending, spending time working with Pinterest trends tool and looking at the top, because we’re going to show you the, once you click on a keyword, then it will show you some of the top pens for it.

You can then look at the top. The Google or the Pinterest search results for that and really taking the time to learn. I’ve looked at a lot of new Pinterest accounts. People will be like, Hey, Tony, I just got into Pinterest. Um, would you mind, I’ve got pen, you know, a handful of stuff on there. Would you mind taking a look?

And instantly I can tell that they have not done their research, that their pen designs. They, they got some random template from Canva, or they decided to Put their creative hat on and take a whack at creating Pinterest pen and the design of it just looks terrible. And the reason why I can say that is because I’ve spent so much time on Pinterest.

I’ve seen what went really well. So I’ve got an idea of like the aesthetic and designs that tend to get the most saves and clicks. And I developed that through, you know, putting in the time. And so I just see the biggest mistake I see people make is just, they try to figure it out all on their own without studying like what’s ranking for different keywords and looking at those pen designs, looking at things from like, what are the, what’s like the dominant color in a pen design?

So if you look at the top three, five rankings for a keyword of Pinterest, yeah. What’s the dominant color up there? There’s text on there. Like, what’s the font style look like? Uh, how big is the font? You know, do you have other elements in that pen design? Paying attention to those details is really important.

And I like to take inspiration from those top ranking pens for my own because they’re clearly working. And so that’s, that’s my biggest tip is just to spend the extra time to study what’s working really well. And. Um, learn and lean on, on that versus just trying to come up with your own, your own designs or using templates that someone created that look pretty.

But you don’t know, I mean, you can test them, but they might not convert.

Jared: Well, a million clicks a month sounds awfully appealing. Uh, it sounds like you got a little work to do to get there, but it does sound, uh, like another great approach to getting your content in front of your target market. You know, like I think at the end of the day, we’re having so many conversations on this podcast week in, week out about how content content creators can get their content in front of their target market.

And, um, you know, I’ll bring it all the way back. You got 20 years of experience in this. It’s changed a lot over the years. It’s really cool to hear how you’ve leaned into this platform. Especially a lot of people are looking for how to get their content out there. Um, where can people follow along with what you have going on?

Um, if they want to connect with you or hear more.

Tony: Yeah, for sure. Um, I spend a lot of my time. I’ve got a newsletter, Tony Hill dot CEO. Um, you can sign up for that. Uh, I’ve released. A free Pinterest masterclass. Uh, it’s called pinpoint masterclass. com. Um, where I just dive into more detail of what we talked about today.

I show a lot of examples of how I’m structuring things and good pin designs and structuring your blog posts and all that kind of stuff. Keyword research. Um, so people are welcome to take that and check out that, um, pin clicks. Got that free interest tool. If you want to link them up to that with the top 20, 000 interests there, plug in some of your keywords, see and see what shows up.

So there’s some good places to connect and be able to go a little deeper with Pinterest.

Jared: That’s great. I will include all of that in our show notes. Tony, maybe next time we’ll catch you, uh, uh, deep diving. Um, I don’t know, Reddit, uh, uh, image search or something, but

Tony: that’s an interesting idea. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. We’ll see where things go. I

Jared: love the pivots. I love, um, just how detailed you take this approach, but again, to bring it back full circle guy, this sounds so similar to a lot of the things we all used to rank our content in Google. And I think that that’s going to make this process so relatable for a lot of people listening.

So thanks for breaking it down for us.

Tony: For sure. My pleasure. Yeah. Thanks for having me back on, man.

Jared: We’ll talk again soon.